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by **admin_pornrev** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:38 pm

Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

FROM: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... ek-asylum/
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By Timothy B. Lee, Published: June 9, 2013 at 3:23 pmE-mail the writer

The whistleblower who disclosed classified documents regarding NSA surveillance to The Washington Post and the Guardian has gone public. He is Edward Snowden, 29, an employee of defense contractor Booz Allen Hamilton.

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Edward Snowden (The Guardian)
Rather than face charges in the United States, Snowden has fled to Hong Kong. He plans to seek asylum in a nation with a strong civil liberties record, such as Iceland.

Americans are familiar with stories of dissidents fleeing repressive regimes such as those in China or Iran and seeking asylum in the United States. Snowden is in the opposite position. He’s an American leaving the land of his birth because he fears persecution.

Four decades ago, Daniel Ellsberg surrendered to federal authorities to face charges of violating the Espionage Act. During his trial, he was allowed to go free on bail, giving him a chance to explain his actions to the media. His case was eventually thrown out after it was revealed that the government had wiretapped him illegally.

Bradley Manning, a soldier who released classified documents to WikiLeaks in 2010, has had a very different experience. Manning was held for three years without trial, including 11 months when he was held in de facto solitary confinement. During some of this period, he was forced to sleep naked at night, allegedly as a way to prevent him from committing suicide. The United Nations’ special rapporteur on torture has condemned this as “cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment in violation of Article 16 of the convention against torture.”

Ellsberg has argued that this degrading treatment alone should be grounds for dismissing the charges against Manning. Instead, the government has sought the harshest possible sentence. Even after Manning pleaded guilty to charges that could put him in prison for 20 years, the government has still pushed forward with additional charges, including “aiding the enemy” and violating the Espionage Act, that were intended to be used against foreign spies, not whistleblowers.

The civilian whistleblowers targeted by the Obama administration haven’t received treatment as harsh as Manning’s. But it’s telling that in none of their cases have the courts reached the legal and constitutional merits. The government’s strategy, in leak cases and many others, is to seek the maximum possible charges and then “plea bargain” down to a sentence the government considers more reasonable.

For example, John Kiriakou, who blew the whistle on torture by the CIA, was charged with five counts, each of which carries a maximum sentence of five to 10 years. With those harsh penalties hanging over his head, Kiriakou waived his right to a trial and accepted a sentence of 30 months in prison. Shamai Leibowitz, another leaker, accepted a 20-month sentence under similar circumstances. Another whistleblower had his case thrown out, and two others still have their cases pending.

If Snowden had chosen to stay in the United States, he would have faced a stark choice: accept a multi-year prison sentence for actions he believed to be in the public interest or go to trial and risk decades in prison if the courts were not persuaded by his legal and constitutional arguments. The American activist Aaron Swartz was facing exactly that choice when he committed suicide in January.

Because of the government’s misconduct in the Ellsberg case, the courts never reached the legal and constitutional merits of prosecuting a whistleblower under the Espionage Act. But as he was going to trial, he would have had reason to be optimistic that the courts would see things his way. The Supreme Court had declared warrantless wiretapping unconstitutional in 1967 and refused to block publication of the Pentagon Papers in 1971.

The current Supreme Court is less sympathetic to civil liberties. For example, earlier this year, the justices threw out a constitutional challenge to the FISA Amendments Act because the plaintiffs could not prove that they had personally been targets of surveillance. Because of the documents Snowden released, we now know that the FISA Amendments Act is the basis for the NSA’s PRISM program.

If Snowden had surrendered himself to U.S. authorities, he almost certainly would have faced charges that carry penalties of decades in prison. He might have rationally feared being subject to years of pretrial detention and the kind of degrading treatment Manning faced. And if he had chosen to fight the charges, he would have risked spending decades in prison if he lost.

There’s no question that the United States has stronger protections for free speech and the rule of law than repressive regimes like China or Iran. But it’s also clear that our courts defend constitutional rights less zealously today than they did in Ellsberg’s day. Snowden wasn’t crazy to question whether he’d be treated fairly by the American justice system.
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dmarklevitt
10:41 AM GMT+1000
you can't stop the leaks. it is only gonna get worse.
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work2play
10:40 AM GMT+1000
Welcome to the People's Republic of America!
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MojoMan713
10:39 AM GMT+1000
When Bush was in office, this man's actions would have been hailed by Nancy Pelosi and the supporters of the left, including the Washington Post, as "Speaking the truth to power."

How times have changed, now that Barack Obama is in the White house. How they have changed, and still, how they remain the same.
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mark_kaskin
10:38 AM GMT+1000
The hypocritical, statist Ed Markey (D-Mass) voted for the original Patriot Act in 2001 under Bush and the renewal and expansion of power in 2011 under Obama. The only way to send a message to statist, fascist politicians like ED MARKEY is to vote them out of office. VOTE NO ON MARKEY IN THE MASS SENATE ELECTION IN JUNE!
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1southmt1
10:30 AM GMT+1000
Execution may be appropriate, depending on how many people die as a result of him wetting his pants in glee over his disclosures.
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CBS from the West
10:28 AM GMT+1000
They should revoke Obama's Nobel Peace Prize and award it to Snowden. Snowden is a national hero.
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wontpaywall
10:30 AM GMT+1000
Snowden doesn't get the 'PDB', which is what turned BAMA into BUSH.
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db-NJ
10:26 AM GMT+1000
... AND Goldman Sachs and Citibank went to Greece and sold faulty 'mortgage-backed' securities and helped cause the financial crisis in 2008 including the current crisis in Greece.. AND 'NO BANKERS OR FINANCIAL EXECUTIVES HAVE GONE TO JAIL!!!'.

But, guess what? Try to blow the whistle to make government more 'honest' and there will be hell to pay!
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wontpaywall
10:33 AM GMT+1000
YOU KNOW that the CROOKS are the ones IN-CHARGE when you've lived thru the greatest FINANCIAL COLLAPSE of ALL TIME and NOBODY has gone to JAIL or even been TRIED or even INDICTED.
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dcjohn
10:41 AM GMT+1000
Was someone in Greece forced to buy MBS?
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DavidGonzales
10:20 AM GMT+1000
Everyone is free to have an opinion of their own, and mine is that Snowden is a traitor and deserves decades in prison. Now the enemy knows what the United States has been up to. With all this new technology, complete privacy is a thing of the past, and if the government isn't looking out for our safety, then the enemy terrorists are free to look for ways to kill us.

I know it's like Big Brother--but things have changed. If the government was to only target Muslims in the United States, that would make sense, but it would surely be profiling and there would be an uproar about that, too. Everything is different now.
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ridahoan1
10:25 AM GMT+1000
Everything is not different. There are cowards now, there were cowards during the American Revolution, but fortunately, our founding fathers were not cowards. It is now the cowards that will hand the ultimate victory to the terrorists by renouncing our past and those who are and have been wiling to sacrifice our freedom for a little illusion of security.
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1southmt1
10:33 AM GMT+1000
It is not like Big Brother or even close to that. Three thresh holds have to be crossed.
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tynes13
10:05 AM GMT+1000
In the past 30 years almost a million people have been killed by gun violence. In that same period, there were
a little more than 3000 deaths from foreign and domestic terrorist attacks. From whom do we need protection?
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Bimpah
10:11 AM GMT+1000
Google: Democide , you will find some interesting numbers.
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wontpaywall
10:12 AM GMT+1000
The 'GUNS' of the 2nd AMENDMENT are to keep you safe from the GOVERNMENT and CRIME and FOOD and PLINKING BOTTLES has NOTHING to do with it.
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ToKnow1010
10:12 AM GMT+1000
Keeping it in perspective would be wise ...

Listen to Snowden's interviews .. He just revealed that the NSA is collecting and STORING every Americans communication for future reference ... that ought to give anybody pause ... and look at the heat map posted on the Guardian and ask yourself why America is one of the most surveiled countries on that Map ..
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ToKnow1010
10:17 AM GMT+1000
MAy you never land on their radar ..
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wontpaywall
10:17 AM GMT+1000
'RADAR' is a palindrome.
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tynes13
10:23 AM GMT+1000
ToKnow1010: What the NSA has been doing for 13 years is, among those of us who've been
paying attention, common knowledge. I'm not surprised or shocked. It's just what our Congress
has approved and it is the power they've given NSA regardless of who is president, Democrat
or Republican. It's a self-perpetuating organization. Americans surrendered their rights to
privacy when the Congress passed the Patriot Act. A few of us warned anyone who listened
and there were protests, reports and all that good stuff. So here we are with a 'leak' that's
NO SECRET AT ALL...If you were paying attention.
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wontpaywall
10:25 AM GMT+1000
The WAPO is also turning into a subset of the OBAMA REGIME'S captive institutions such as the IRS, the JUSTICE Department, the CIA, the NSA, and the ARMY, which now prohibits soldiers from READING 'CONSERVATIVE' books and other patriotic works of History and Politics.

If your COMMENTS HERE don't conform to their IDEOLOGY, you are excised, but, it's painless.
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tynes13
10:25 AM GMT+1000
wontpaywall: So you're saying that nearly a million peoples' deaths are just the price we pay to be
safe from the government? How are we 'safe' from people with guns who think that killing whoever
they want is the right thing to do? The NRA and people like you are bigger terrorists than
Al-Queda.
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tynes13
10:26 AM GMT+1000
wontpaywall: Don't let reality get in the way of your paranoia.
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wontpaywall
10:27 AM GMT+1000
All over the World, ISLAM is on the move and attack. Obama is COWERING from the task to go to war with it and defeat them. Other than THAT he's your normal lying politician.
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Simon2
10:05 AM GMT+1000
Obama has no shame. His military tortured Bradley Manning and continues to abuse its prosecution of him. Then we have the illegal detention, torture, and illegal force feeding of the prisoners in Guantanamo. Obama has shown himself to be a monster. He is George W Bush the 2nd. His presidency is tarnished forever.

Edward Snowden is a true American hero. He is loyal to America unlike Obama and his torturous crew.
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tynes13
10:17 AM GMT+1000
His military? Really? How about OUR military. It's the same military that invaded Iraq, and killed
thousands of innocent people in a country that never attacked us. They're 'citizen soldiers' and
they follow the chain of command. Obama didn't order Manning to be 'tortured'. Taking a suicidal
inmates clothes is common practice in jails and mental institutions nationwide.
On the bright side, Obama is ending the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, an act that will save American
lives and well as lives of people in those countries and free up resources for the US to make
the lives of our citizens better.
He's no monster and he's not a micromanager and he's NOT listening to our phone calls, or
ordering people to be tortured. Americans' Congress voted for the FISA act and the Patriot Act.
The president is charged with carrying out the law. If Americans disagree that need to speak up
and organize to stop it as best they can. But we weren't able to stop the invasion of Iraq, were
we? Or the subsequent torture and murder of Iraqis either.
It will take great courage to effect change and the debate on what is real security should begin.
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Bimpah
9:57 AM GMT+1000
We need to stop this Spy Grid ASAP before we are all in to deep. Liberals and Rhinos and bats and sugar ants whatever you nuts want to go by ... this is trouble
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sickofthemall
9:55 AM GMT+1000
What nonsense.
Remember when this was being done illegally and anyone who criticized were called "traitors"?

They wanted to charge the NYT with treason just for printing it?
(after the election)

Now, it's legal and it's whistle blowing?
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Bimpah
9:54 AM GMT+1000
Scenario 1 : Next pres is a Right Wing Extremist , he wants to take the Country to War with Iran etc. the people awaken and are sick of War , they take to the streets......but not before massive arrests are made of Liberals that Fox NEWS has painted as America hating Commies. Wake Up! There is a bigger picture here!
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jkaren
9:59 AM GMT+1000
" Wake Up! There is a bigger picture here!"

you should be the one waking up.
if a tyrannical extremist gets into power, laws wont be mattering anyway.
and if liberals keep bashing president obama, and dianne feinstein, before you know it, you will have a right wing extremist.
and hillary clinton voted for the war in iraq, and if democrats are stupid enough to elect people of such little integrity as anthony weiner into office, i wouldn't be only blaming fox news.
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by **admin_pornrev** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:39 pm

More Comments:

Bimpah
10:03 AM GMT+1000
I painted it that way to wake up Liberals that are asleep because of their extreme Idolatry. I am wide awake I don't trust "anyone" with that much power. That s why we have the 4th Amendment, because man by nature is evil.
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bannedagain5446
9:52 AM GMT+1000
"Has the United States become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/20...

If you have to ask the question . . .
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ToKnow1010
9:56 AM GMT+1000
Clearly !!
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bio_met
9:57 AM GMT+1000
What's Scenario 2?
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Bimpah
10:00 AM GMT+1000
I was just trying to make a basic point. You don't give small groups of Men this massive amount of power.
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ticktockKY
10:01 AM GMT+1000
power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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bannedagain5446
10:02 AM GMT+1000
to paraphrase Judges:

"And also all that generation were gathered unto their fathers:

and there arose another generation after them, which knew not Watergate,

nor yet the works which the government can do to the people. .
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Jeepers Creepers
9:50 AM GMT+1000
He probably had enough frequent flyer miles, so I am wondering why he didn't just fly to Stockholm....
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ducknetservices
9:49 AM GMT+1000
Perhaps finally time for digital laws...heard that for years but again spell out the IT Infrastructure to be legal and what is not legal. PBS has done a good job on this and hey the whole country knows what meta data is now too Yes it gets more complicated but what is not today. They use the verbiage here where as if specific technologies and their reach were spelled out, well a different world.

The video links from PBS are good as they show the big fail with the NSA predictive analytics in Las Vegas and even the FBI speaking here is asking for guidelines, what do you want more security or privacy? He's a citizen too that failsl under ths auspice. Watch the older ATT&T video too, very interesting on the tech whistle blower and why I give his story some credit, it is not irractional magpie stuff like what we hear out of DC.

Remember it's private companies contracted to the government with all the data capabilities too, not in house talent and what else and where else are they using this data...we don't know...maybe they are and maybe they are not?

http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2013/06/nsa-data-mi...

On the magpies in DC...we really need smarter folks both elected and appointed...restore the non partisan office of technology assessment I say, soon. At least give the Senators and House a chance to partake in getting educated instead of being chirping magpies when they are on the floor With everything nearly free, including money being created with software well what's next? We need balance wiht the real world and the world of software too as we have seen over and over that all algorithms and models don't play out like they were designed and lot of folks made a lot of money with those that lied and moved money and duped all the process.

http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2013/06/nearly-free...

Algo Duping 101 videos..that educate..

http://www.ducknet.net/attack-of-the-killer-algori...
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Jeepers Creepers
9:48 AM GMT+1000
The United States has an extradition treaty with Hong Kong, but does not have one with China.

See Title 18 of the US Code.
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CBS from the West
10:35 AM GMT+1000
Well, first there is the question of whether or not that treaty remains effective given that Hong Kong is now subject to Chinese sovereignty.

Then there is the question of whether this is an extraditable offense. I think he has a very strong case to argue that he is the subject of political persecution rather than bona fide criminal prosecution.
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BlueMoose
9:46 AM GMT+1000
Isn't the fact that he fled to the Peoples' Republic of China a bit suspicious?
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guilliam
9:47 AM GMT+1000
I'm half inclined to think he doesn't realize the UK gave Hong Kong back to China
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BBWeekly
9:46 AM GMT+1000
Based on the comments below, once again it seems to come down to whether or not you trust this President. I think he is an untrustworthy snake in the grass. Others seem to want to give him free reign to conduct as much surveillance as he wants, because they think he is *trustworthy*. Back to the 50-50 American split, once again. All about identity politics and perspectives. This time civil liberties - who cares? You would think that this would be one issue where people could rise up to protect themselves, without regard to party.
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RealChoices
9:47 AM GMT+1000
I had issues with George Bush, but I fully supported his desire to monitor the communications of would be terrorists. Detecting terrorists shouldn't be partisan.
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BBWeekly
9:48 AM GMT+1000
If they targeted terrorists, I would agree. But in this case they are gathering *all* of our information and holding it indefinitely. That's what I would like to stop.
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Me_2
9:55 AM GMT+1000
Just a random fact, but in the 21st century, more Americans have died in their bathtubs than at the hands of terrorists...and that includes 9/11.

Think that bogeyman's a bit overrated? Feinstein points out *2* cases where they caught someone thinking of doing something (and 1 was by regular police work).

This war on terro...Americans has gone on long enough. If the choices are my civil liberties or the infinitesimally small chance that I'd be a victim of a terrorist, give me the liberty.
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ToKnow1010
9:58 AM GMT+1000
everytime !!
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fairfaxvoter1
9:59 AM GMT+1000
To answer your comment: I think it doesn't matter whether you trust this president (I do), because there is an infinite succession of presidents stretching out from the next election into the future, and surely we can't trust all of them. There needs to be a system of laws, checks, and balances, not just "Oh, he's a nice guy, I'd I'd like to have a beer with him" as the basis for our system. It's not about the individual presidents, it's about a lasting system that protects our freedoms.
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CBS from the West
10:37 AM GMT+1000
"we cant trust all of them"

Actually, I don't think we've had a President we _can_ trust in my entire lifetime--and I go back to Truman.
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